Rodney
Reed’s family has been at the forefront of a 17 year struggle to prove
his innocence and win his freedom from Texas’ death row. Recently,
Rodney’s mother Sandra, and brother Rodrick, sat down to talk with Lily
Hughes about their disappointment in the courts, the need for DNA
testing, and the pain of facing an execution date.
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THERE'S
A clemency process that's already started, and we hope that you will
have an opportunity to meet with the new governor, Greg Abbott, or
perhaps members of the Board of Pardons and Paroles, to talk to them
about why they should grant clemency. What you would say to the governor
if you did get a chance to meet with him face to face?
Sandra:
What we've been saying all along! Rodney is an innocent man. He was
wrongfully convicted. He didn't get a fair trial, and they used Jim Crow
tactics to convict him. It's not that they use Jim Crow tactics with
every trial, but they used it with him.
We
just want the new DNA testing. We want the truth. That's all we're
asking. The only evidence that was presented was his DNA, and it was
old. And you have nothing else--I mean nothing to link him to this case.
How is it that you have enough merit to take a life--over old DNA? He
was dating her!
There
was a box of evidence that Judge Towslee ordered sealed--locked away.
We never knew what that was until recently. Now, at this last hearing,
there were two boxes when there should have been one, and they both were
unsealed. That, to me, spells corruption. All I'm asking for is
fairness. Give my son a fair shake. He never had a fair shake in the
beginning. That's all we're asking.
And
from my point of view, no matter what, you still shouldn't take a life.
Thou shalt not kill. What happened to the Ten Commandments? That's all I
have to say.
Rodrick:
I would say to him that we just want to be treated the way he would
want his own treated. We want the same thing he would expect if he were
in our shoes. Fairness. Equality. We're not asking for anything special.
We're not asking for anything out of the ordinary. We're just asking
for what's right.
Sandra:
And if you have thousands of people out here who believe in him, what
does that say? There is a shadow of a doubt...Twelve jurors were
deceived. I still don't know how they thought they had enough to do what
they did, but I do believe they were deceived.
RECENTLY,
AT a hearing here in Bastrop in front of the trial judge, he denied
important DNA testing. And of course, there's been a string of denials
from the courts over the years, whether it's the Texas Court of Criminal
Appeals or the Fifth U.S. Circuit of Appeals and, more recently, the
U.S. Supreme Court. How has that affected your view of the court system
and the way the criminal justice system operates?
Sandra:
I've told people over the years that I was very naïve as far as the
justice system is concerned. I thought that if anything went wrong, all
we had to do was take it to court, because that's what the United States
stands for: fairness without a shadow of a doubt.
But when it came down to my son's case and the hearing and the way the trial went, it just went plumb Jim Crow.
There
were witnesses waiting to testify, but never called. They made me a
possible witness for the prosecution and never called me. The judge
denied the alibi witness from testifying. And sitting there during that
process, there was nothing I could do. I had no knowledge of the law
itself, I didn't have the funds, and I was denied the ability to testify
for my son.
It
felt like I was chained and bound. There was nothing I could do but
stand there and watch them railroad my son. Over these last years--17 or
18 years of fighting--I have to say: Thank god for the Campaign to End
the Death Penalty. Because you guys know what's going on and what
happened to me.
You
wouldn't have known what happened to Rodney if you hadn't been
concerned about right and wrong, and what did happen. And I am a proud
member of the Campaign to End the Death Penalty.
Traveling
over the years, and speaking and meeting exonerees from death row and
other family members speaking out--that encouraged me to keep right on
fighting for my son. This proved to me that the United States has
defrauded all of us.
They
painted this so-called justice system with rose colors and made us
think that we would get a fair shake. And being Black, you have that
mark against you. Looking back at Martin Luther King and how he fought
for our rights, I thought, well, we have our rights now. But I realize
we don't. We never had equality.
AND THE courts have completely failed us.
Sandra: The courts have completely failed us. Right. Absolutely.
SO WOULD you say that winning justice from the system requires taking MLK's route?
Sandra:
It's a hard row to hoe, especially when racism is still rampant. Things
are better on the surface, but within, it's still there, and it still
hurts. It still affects people.
It's
undercover slavery. That's what I feel. The government is building all
of these prisons. Why? And most of the people are minorities. The
justice they're carrying out is legalized murder. Murder is murder.
Yet
we're willing to sacrifice our young men and boys to go over and fight
for somebody else's rights. And we don't have our own backyard cleaned
up? We're killing our own. That's what I got out of this--there's no
justice in this so-called justice system that we have.
Rodrick: There's some justice, just us.
RODRICK, DID you have anything else you wanted to add about the courts?
Rodrick:
Yes. I believe the courts are very, very misleading, because you think
that justice will be blind and everyone should get a fair shake. But the
reality is that if you don't have the capital, you're going to get the
punishment. If you're poor, you're not going to get proper
representation. If you're mentally handicapped in any kind of way,
you're not going to get a fair shake, and that's not right.
So
the bottom line is that there's a lot of work to be done in the justice
system, and it's not going to happen until we come together and use
what we have to make it better. In cases like my brother's case, once we
bring him home--which I pray that's the way it goes--then the fight
keeps going. That racism, that injustice, that corruption is still
there. And that's the roots that we have to try to dig up.
SWITCHING
SUBJECTS, I think that both of you have been down to see Rodney fairly
recently, and we were wondering if you could talk about how he's
handling everything?
Sandra:
I haven't seen him since the hearing, because there have been other
people, such as his sons, who have been visiting. I wanted them to have
as much visitation as they could, because over these 18 years, he hadn't
seen his sons. When he was convicted, his sons were six or seven--maybe
not even that old. But they're now grown, and they have their own kids,
so they've been visiting.
His
granddaughter lives in California, and her mother put her on the plane,
and her father picked her up in Dallas--and wow, they just had a
wonderful, beautiful visit. Each visit was four hours. Monday, they got two visits in the same week for four hours, and I think that was wonderful.
So
I want those kids to visit as much as they can, and other people who
are in his corner and hadn't seen him. They needed to see him, and he
needed to see them. He only gets a one visit a week, and so that makes
it kind of tough. But he's strong.
Rodrick: Yeah, he's real strong. He's real positive. You go down there with the expectation of trying to lift his spirits up, and...
Sandra: He lifts yours.
Rodrick:
He lifts yours. And I think it's all possible because of God, and all
his supporters and friends and family who believe in him and support
him. That keeps him strong, that keeps him positive, that keeps him
going. If it had been me, I'd be crazy as a bug, but he's strong.
Sandra:
His support is strong, and his family, we're right there with him. If
he can just see our faces and see how strong we are, it keeps him
strong.
Rodrick: We keep each other strong.
Sandra:
He's doing as well as can be expected. And of course, our faith is
strong and I'm optimistic. Yet I have to face reality of how this
justice system has treated my son over these 18 years, with the denial
of everything. I'm hoping and praying. I can't see how, with all of this
information and evidence pointing to Rodney's innocence, Greg Abbott
would deny him clemency, but who's to say?
THAT
BRINGS me to my next question. How are you all doing? I know this is
not an easy time, and it never is. What do you want to say about the
death penalty, and the way it creates a whole new set of victims?
Rodrick: Myself, I'm tired.
Sandra: He's tired. We're all tired.
Rodrick:
I'm tired, but I'm strong. I'm going to keep my strength, and I'm going
to push on as far as I can and do all that I can do, and I'm going to
let God do the rest. But I think that it's very stressful. I've
aged--I've got more gray hair and a face full of gray. It has an
effect.
All
in all, we're good. And I know it will get better. We all have points
where it's like, how much more can we take? How many more denials? How
many more years? How many more days?
Sandra:
And on top of dealing with everyday life, I have six sons, and all of
them have their issues. Their issues are mine, and I worry. Not as much
as I used to when they was coming up. Now that they're in their 40s and
50s---
Rodrick: Don't tell them my age! (laughter)
Sandra:
I'm telling mine accidently! But, you know, when it rains it pours.
There's going to be times where everything happens at one time. But
we're maintaining. It's a struggle, but we're maintaining. And me being
the mother, words can't even express what I'm feeling now at this phase.
I could tell you but you wouldn't really know.
Rodrick: The words can't describe it.
Sandra: I can sit here and tell you right now how much I'm grateful to you guys, and the words aren't enough.
Rodrick: They don't even do it justice.
Sandra:
Words can't even express what I'm feeling. At this phase of the game,
I'm strong. I'm optimistic. Knowing what this system has done to us, I
can't believe it until I see it now. I have to touch it now. So that's
the best I can do, but I'm praying to God that he gives me the strength
to endure whatever.
Rodrick:
Somebody told me yesterday, "I'm really proud of you for the work that
you do for your brother. I think you're doing a good thing. I'm so proud
of you." I looked at her and I said, "To be proud of me for doing
something for someone that I love is not a big deal. What moves me is
people who do something for someone they don't even know--a stranger."
That's
what gives me strength. When we have people like you who are not
related, who didn't even know Rodney, but you came in and you gave up
your time and your money and everything you can give to help support us.
Because it's easy to do for someone that you love. Anybody does that.
But to do something for a stranger who you don't know even know--that
says it all.
Sandra: But see, you're God's angels to me. I know we've discussed that before, but you are.
He
assigned you, whether you believe in Him or not, to do this. It's His
work. Through you guys. Those petitions that we attempted to submit to
the DA! Eleven thousand signatures!
AND NOW it's over fourteen thousand.
Sandra: The signatures of people who we don't know!
Rodrick:
That's what I'm saying. We have to be here. And if we're any kind of
good family and love our family, we have to do the things we have to do.
But for all the hundreds and thousands of people trying to help us,
that's something to be proud of.
Sandra: Because if it was up to our family, we would be screwed, glued and tattooed!
THAT
BRINGS us to the last question: Is there anything that you want to say
to people who already support Rodney? What can people be doing right now
that helps the most?
Sandra:
What helps the most is do what you've been doing. I thank each and
every one, the thousands and possibly millions of people that have
viewed that documentary State vs. Reed and took an interest. I thank
them all.
Rodrick:
I thank you all, and I'm proud of you, because that's doing
something--when you're in a situation where you don't have to be, but
you chose to be in it. You chose to be in this fight. You can sit down
on the sidelines and watch it go down, but you said no. I stand up and
I'm going to represent.
Sandra: How long have we been in this together? Fifteen years.
Rodrick: That means the world to me.
Sandra: And I love all of you.
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